Ban The Kids From Restaurants! And Make Sure They Take Their Parents With Them!
Posted on Aug 5, 2011 | 41 comments
In the past few weeks the talk over "banning children" from public places has really been heating up. Numerous articles and news stories have been popping up all over the web and they have begun to cause quite a stir. Kids being banned from planes, restaurants, movies - it is happening all over.
My friend Nancy Sathre-Vogel is a major advocate against the banning of children in public places. I on the other hand, despite my love for kids, have no problem with it. It seems Nancy and I are at impasse on this subject and are asking for some level-headed folks to chime in.
Here you will find my arguments in defense of the banning, or suggested removal of children, from restaurants. Over at Nancy's site, Family on Bikes, you will find her arguments in defense of the kids and parents. Please feel free to engage. I am a tough person to budge, and so is Nancy, but maybe with enough ideas from you guys we can come up with some happy solutions.
Honestly, I don’t even see what the big fuss is about here, but a whole bunch of people seem to have an issue with children being “banned” in public places.
I won’t be shy in saying I have no problem with a public business imposing a rule against anyone displaying disorderly conduct - babies and children included. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hold the kids responsible, I kick and scream when I get hungry as well. I put this solely on the parents of the rambunctious little darlings that are placed in positions where it is nearly impossible for them to behave appropriately. I empathize with the children. But with the parents, not so much.
I have spent my entire adult life working with children. My job for the past 15 years has essentially been to try and mainstream children who struggle to fit into the norms of society. Kids with severe trauma related disorders. Kids whose heartbeats and emotions run at twice the speed of a normal person. Kids that will hurt themselves and hurt others. Kids that will pick up a plate in a crowded restaurant and hurl it across the room without any thought or concern of the consequences.
And yet, despite the challenges and behaviors these children present, never have I seen any of them kicked out of a public place. Never!
And I have taken these kids places. Ballgames, Restaurants, Movies, Plays. We go out all the time, this is what we do. I estimate I must have taken over 1,000 kids with serious behavioral challenges out to public places over the past 15 years, and we have never had an issue with the public. Have I had to ask the kids I work with to leave a restaurant or movie with me? YES! But never has a store owner or waiter ever had to escort any of us out of the building.
In fact, the public has been far more helpful than they been punitive. The public is fantastic and people in general are very aware of what is happening around them. This whole “banning of kids thing” is based on the premise that the public is impatient. That they are intolerant. That people just don’t like crying babies and they are spoiled and they just WANT what they WANT. Bologna! (First time I have ever said Bologna in print) That is not the case at all.
Do you know why I have never seen one of “my kids” banned or removed from a public place? Because of ME. Yeah, I know that sounds ridiculously arrogant, but it is true. I work my butt off to make sure the kids I am with are aware of their surroundings and that they show respect for themselves and others. And when they don’t, the public can still see the efforts I am making to make the best of the situation. The public senses my awareness and concern for the kids I am with, but they are also aware that I am conscious of their comfort. And because of this they tolerate far more than they would if I was sitting back letting the kids I was with run amok.
And there in lies the core of the entire issue.
It is not the children the public is upset with, it is the PARENTS!
It is not the children that are being banned, it is the PARENTS!
The signs should read: Screaming kids with inattentive and careless parents will be banned. But how does one define that?
Millions of us have raised children, attended public outings, and have never once been asked to LEAVE a public event because our child was having a rough time. And why is that?
Well, probably because most of us are courteous, mindful individuals who have some concept that we are all part of something greater. Most of us do care what others think and we don’t want to put them out if we can help it.
I can’t even count how many times I have taken my 2 children out of restaurants or public places and missed out on the fun because my children just were not up for the moment. That is just the reality of having children.
But not everyone gets that and we all KNOW it! Not everyone cares about the comfort of other people.
There are those who will take their 6 month old baby to see Transformers at 10 PM and when the baby starts having gas and screaming hundreds of moviegoers are just supposed to smile and accept that a baby has been placed in a situation that is completely inappropriate and the parent is just too consumed to do anything about it?
There are those who will take their children to restaurants and get so wrapped up in conversation they will completely lose track of their child until a fellow customer comes over and says, “Uhmmmm, I found your child under my table.” This is all fine and well, but when it happens again 5 minutes later and mom is still sipping her chardonnay and chatting away, then we have a problem.
There are those who will pay $1,500 to take a baby on First Class Red-Eye flight from Singapore to LA and . . . well, that is just dumb. I think Malaysian Airlines is doing parents a favor here. Who pays $1,500 G’s for a First Class flight with a baby. And let’s get the record straight. One Airline banned kids from one very high-end section on some of its planes. No one is banning kids from flying. They are banning kids from flying amongst people who have paid a ton of money so they don’t have to fly with kids. Why is it wrong for someone to want to pay a bit more for a bit of comfort? If a kid was playing drums on the wall of your honeymoon suite all evening, would you complain? And what if the drumming never stopped? Would it be wrong to ask the family to leave?
What do we do with people who are not mindful or considerate with their children in public places? People who, for whatever reason, are content to let their kids run wild and show little regard for the comfort and peace of other paying customers. People who put themselves and their fussy children before everyone else.
Well, if it is a grownup disturbing the peace we just kick them out. All businesses and public institutions hold the right to remove anyone at anytime for disruptive behavior. Grown men get kicked out of bars and ballgames every day. Teenagers are removed from public buses, hotels and libraries every 10 seconds. People who are not dressed properly are asked to leave stores and airlines all the time. With adults, it is easy to give someone the boot. And hence you don’t see signs posted everywhere. It is a given; it is law. You act like a jerk and piss everyone off, you are out!
But with kids it’s not so easy. In our world you are just asking for a lawsuit.
It is often the same discourteous parent who is unwilling to mind their child in a public place that overreacts when a business owner asks them to care for children or leave. This presents a huge issue for the business owner. It is just safer and less messy to post a sign that implies the place of business is intended for older clientele and anyone under 6 is not allowed. A million places in the world don't allow children under 21, whether they drink or not. No one is fussing about that.
A business person that makes a living on his or her customers must make a decision. Look at this example in Pennsylvania, USA.
The person who runs a bar and grill at a golf course can play to the few families that frequent his establishment, most of whom are very civil, or he can play to the other 97% of golfers who are responsible for the bulk of his profits and put up a sign that says,
This is a place where adults go to hang out with other adults. They all love their kids, but sometimes even kid loving adults like to be with just other adults. We don’t mind kids, but on occasion a child will kick and stamp his or her feet and start throwing forks and that is just not what people come here for. I don’t know why I should feel bad about banning kids under 6. Bars do it everyday. Concerts, special events, places of work, amusement park rides, comedy shows and PTA meetings all ban kids, why can’t I? Maybe I am being spiteful of the fact that when I last took my kids to Storyland I wasn’t allowed to play in the ball pit or jump in the bouncy castle, but honestly I think it all comes down to the fact that most parents take great care of their kids in public and some don’t. And I don’t want those who DON'T, dragging their kids into my bar while they get sloshed on gin and tonics and let their kids run wild.
There is oh so much talk of rights. If you notice, in those areas of the world that struggle most, the people's inability to concede the smallest of rights often leads to years of war and hardship. Getting stuck on little, petty rights is historically very dangerous. I for one will have no issue with any business banning my children or me for the stake of their own profits. That just makes sense. This ban is not based on race or gender or religion. This is based on civility and comfort. It is based on allowing customers to receive the services they pay for.
I love kids. My wife and I are quitting our jobs so we can spend as much time as possible with our children. And I have always been happy to offer help to those in need. But in no way do I feel bad for a parent who gets the boot from a public place because their child is running wild. If you know your kids are wild, don’t take them to adult movies and restaurants. Be responsible. Stick to McDonalds until your child is ready. Rent a movie. Order takeout. Make a sacrifice for everyone else, including your kids. My guess is, your four-year-old is not too into Black Swan and fine dining. And I don’t think they give a hoot about first class unless you push the idea into their little sponge-like brains.
Let’s see some ownership. You want to see kid bans lifted, then take care of your kids. Be courteous. Be thoughtful. Don't bring your kid to a aplace for adults. I am not bringing my middle-aged friends to hang out Chuck-E-Cheese. And you know why? Cause Chuck-E-Cheese is for little KIDS! DUH!!! People would think I was a pedophile. And when YOU bring your crying baby to a Rated R movie past her bedtime people think you are a JERK!
Let's get real and start focusing on stuff that matters. No one is kicking out your baby. They are kicking out YOU! And that is fine with me.
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I posted on Nancy's blog, but since this is a buddy post, I figured I'd see your side too. And I think it's pretty much exactly my position.
In an ideal world, we'd just have the ability to talk with a child causing problems, and remove a family from a public place if the parents can't unsure appropriate behaviour.
(Of course, in an ideal world, parents would have a realistic idea of the behaviour expected in different situations, and would not take children to young to be able, nor kids likely to have difficulties.)
But in our world, banning kids altogether is the easier route that a number of businesses, tired of losing good clients from annoyance, are having to resort to. And I don't blame them for it.
"In an ideal world, we’d just have the ability to talk with a child causing problems, and remove a family from a public place if the parents can’t unsure appropriate behaviour.
(Of course, in an ideal world, parents would have a realistic idea of the behaviour expected in different situations, and would not take children to young to be able, nor kids likely to have difficulties.)"
Yeah, that.
Why can't it be that simple??
Nancy from Family on Bikes recently posted..Baby banning: What the No Kids Allowed movement is doing to society
Well, the world is what you make of it right. I could use some sensitivity training around this issue. I deal with some pretty crappy parents and I am not being judgmental, these parents are a mess. Anyone who says, "Take my kid and don't bring them back" every time I go to pick the kid up = bad parent.
If we could talk with the kids it would be all set. Is that possible yes. I do it. But I would recommend that approach. It is dangerous, at least in the States.
Great Dialogue Nancy. And I do agree with you. I am just not sure it is possible.
Oh gads - that brings back memories of when I taught on the Navajo reservation. I was at a boarding school and many of the parents dropped the kids off in August and then forgot about them until Christmas, when the dorms closed for the holidays.
I had one boy I felt so badly for - our school bus literally dropped him and his brother off at an empty hogan at the beginning of Christmas break and picked them up again 2 weeks later. They just huddled together in the freezing cold hogan with nothing to eat - God only knows where the parents were. It was awful.
Nancy from Family on Bikes recently posted..Baby banning: What the No Kids Allowed movement is doing to society
I should add that that was the exception, NOT the rule!
Nancy from Family on Bikes recently posted..Baby banning: What the No Kids Allowed movement is doing to society
I posted on Nancy's page too. I 100% agree with what you said and said as much on her blog:
I agree that people of all ages should be shushed or removed by the establishment if they are disruptive. I wish more companies would get some backbone in that regard.
On the other hand, kids do tend to be overwhelmingly disruptive in certain situations because many parents (not all but it only takes 1 child to disrupt an entire theater) don't do anything about a loud or fussy child. I agree, they are just babies & children. Because of that, you shouldn't try to exceed their capabilities - most will get bored in a 2 hour movie, they'll get tired being up too late, they'll be in distress in a loud situation. Why would a caring parent put them there? If anything, I see these parents as the selfish ones. They want what they want more than they care about the needs and limitations of their children (not to mention the comfort of other paying patrons).
And god forbid you actually talk to or chastise a child making noise or kicking your seat. That's when the parent will wake up and get in your face and yell at you about daring to speak to or discipline their child. You can't be so naive as to think even the kindest of comments would go over well!
It takes a lot of bad apples to make a business create these policies. I'm sure this wasn't an arbitrary decision but one based on complaints over and over and over again. Maybe once parents wake up and start parenting again this will change.
It plays out like this. Neglectful parents know they are neglectful. They just lack the motivation to do anything about it. When a stranger steps up and says something - HELLO MOTIVATION. Don't you dare show me up in front of my kid.
I saw an old man in line at Penn Station in NY ask a father to ease up on the language he was using with his son. It was brutal language. The man, maybe 26, turned and shoved the old man to the floor. End of discussion. You can't help that.
People don't change cause you speak to them. They change when they are ready to change. And how do you know when that is?
There is a reason people say parenting is the toughest job. It requires constant, CONSTANT mindfulness. Being a father or mother does suggest you are parenting. There is a difference.
Thanks for the comment. My hope is the good parents lead by example and conversations and debates with good parents like Nancy bring change forward, if only a bit.
"I saw an old man in line at Penn Station in NY ask a father to ease up on the language he was using with his son. It was brutal language. The man, maybe 26, turned and shoved the old man to the floor."
Good God Almighty.
Nancy from Family on Bikes recently posted..Baby banning: What the No Kids Allowed movement is doing to society
True Nancy! It was maybe 4 years ago. There are some tough nuts out there. You know, another thing. In a smaller town like where I grew up, you can avoid people. In a city, people are everywhere and that creates a lot more edge. But one thing noticed is these bans are happening in smaller towns. That is interesting.
I also posted on Nancy's site, and I must say, I agree with your position.
I don't want children banned for being children. I want ill behaved children banned...and like you, it's the parents that bug me to no end.
I gave a few examples on Nancy's blog, particularly experience as a waitress, having to step over children who are running around. The parents reward this by bribing the child most of the time.
Nancy's suggestion of correcting a child does not, in my experience, work in today's society. If anything, the parent will become defensive and allow the behavior. I fear for our society's future because of the way these children are not being taught right from wrong in public settings. They aren't just going to learn it by osmosis once they hit the magical age of 18.
I have enjoyed this debate very much, both sides of it.
The best thing you can do for the world is to teach and take care of yourself. For parents, this includes your children. If everyone did this and was mindful of this idea, well just think of what would happen. That said, if you go the opposite way and don't take care of yourself and your kids, they will follow that path. I was in McDonald's yesterday and a woman told her child LOUDLY to get the F over here before he she beats his F'N ass. Now, my tolerance is up. I am at McDonalds. I didn't expect anything. Doesn't bother me. But I am going out with my wife to a movie and nice dinner, which we never do(we have kids!) and the same thing happens. And the kids runs under my table to get away from crazy, pissy mom. Yep, kick them out! I will hold the door.
It comes down to this. Parents who earn the respect of their children will not have these issues and will in turn earn the respect of the public. If your kids don't respect you, no way strangers will, and this is going to make it very tough for you to get sympathy votes.
Thanks a bunch for the comment. If you ever step over my kids in a restaurant and I don't come to your aid. Feel free to boot us out.
I agree. I have several children (including adult children, teens, and tweens)...my kids don't act like that, and I don't even have to raise my voice or use vulgarities to achieve this...;)...it's as you said...respect...my kids respect me, and they respect themselves.
My parents were not too strict, but I would have never dared act like that in public. A few weeks ago, my kids and I (and my dad, in his 70s) were in the mall...and we went to the Rainforest Cafe for a ridiculously overpriced meal...now I get noise in there. Duh, it's like mc donalds only with jungle animals and expensive food...and some kids a few tables over were just absolutely out of control, and mom was texting. My dad looked at me with a smile and said, "remember when you and your brother used to act like that?" and I was so confused. "Er, no!" "DAMN RIGHT! I'd have changed my views on spanking if you ever did!" (dad didn't spank us). It wasn't how they disciplined. It's the RESPECT they somehow gave me for them, myself, and others.
And this issue isn't so much about tolerating children and childish behavior (which I totally get...I mean, I have 9 kids...kids act up when they know you're likely to give in )...it's about RESPECT...for others, for yourself. Allowing your children to misbehave in public is disrespectful to others around you. It's inconvenient to take care of it, but it's the right thing to do.
I am really good with kids. But with adults, I can have a nasty temper. My kids see right through that. They literally lose respect for me in the moment. My daughter gets quite, my son gets amped. Either way, my actions, behaviors, and other parents, are viewed very closely by our children. If you carry yourself as a parent with little self-respect, your kids will see right through that. I am not saying you need to be a hard-ass, that makes no difference. Show your kids you care.
Oh I've been waiting for someone to write about this! I don't have children, but I have WAY too often been in very expensive "adult" restaurants and had to tell neglectful parents to please control their child/children because " I didn't come here to pay $200 to be abused". I completely blame bad parenting-- not the children who are bored and tired and shouldn't be in these restaurants in the first place. Same with misbehaving on airplanes. I'm over 40 and when we were kids, my parent still tell me, that they could take my brother and I anywhere and not be embarrassed by our behaviour. We knew what would have been brewing back home, afterwards, had we behaved in a bad way. That taught us manners and hopefully those became instilled in us for later life. I see WAY too many bratty kids get away with murder these days and I'm tired of it.
I'll do kiddy boot camp if parents will let me. Actually, it should be parent boot camp. The kid's are doing exactly what they have been taught to do.
I have to agree whole-heartedly. I do not have children. I do not appreciate being subjected to other people's undisciplined brats, screaming, whining, running around, kicking the back of my seat repeatedly on airplanes or in theaters. Babies who cry and disrupt movies are the reason God created babysitters. My parents never took us to restaurants when I was growing up unless it was our birthday, and only then when were were 9 or 10 or older. If they went out to a nice steak dinner, we had a babysitter who fed us hot dogs. And it's not because we were disruptive kids; it's because "dining out" was an adult activity in our household. Pizza restaurants notwithstanding -- that was the one exception and occasionally when traveling we would go to a pizza parlor. And if they took us to a movie -- it was a drive-in. No seats to kick but theirs.
I don't think there should be a wholesale BAN but there certainly should be rules of appropriate behavior for ALL patrons, and the crying baby, whining toddler, obnoxious teen, and the boisterous drunk should all be shown the door if the behavior doesn't desist after first warning.
My older sister, for example, taught her two at a very early age that if they behaved quietly and politely in restaurants, they WOULD get to go to such places again. Her children were always polite, and even chose their meal and ordered for themselves, at a very young age. I've known other kids (including a FOUR YEAR OLD whose company I have been in all weekend) who were taught how to behave, and know that if they don't, they will be in trouble and won't get to go again. We had that four year old out until past midnight last night with no afternoon nap, were in two restaurants and were on trains, buses, and a river cruise and never a whimper or whine or other demand for attention out of him. Ten adults and three older children enjoyed his company all afternoon and evening and he quietly fell asleep on the train home without a whine or complaint or ever needing a single scolding for his behavior all day. And . . . he accompanied us on similar adventures last year -- when he was only three -- with the same result. Yes, he's an exception. But he was so good last year that we would all have been disappointed if he hadn't been able to come with us this year. (He's a very engaging and charming child.) So there are exceptions and I would hate to see a child like him or my niece and nephew be banned from an activity because of the behavior of others.
But I will admit, due to the proliferation of undisciplined children in the last couple of decades, I have yearned for a "no children" section in better restaurants for years. I've even asked for it a few times just to make a point that the noise level was out of control. And I fully agree -- it's not the kids' fault, it's 100% the parents' for not either teaching kids MANNERS or understanding their kids well enough to recognize that the child is too tired and crabby to behave and going through the drivethru at McDonald's instead of going into a sit-down restaurant where people are trying to have a quiet, perhaps romantic, dinner.
What I'd really like to see is a sign saying "If your conversation can be heard from more than 6 feet away from your table, you will be asked to leave." Because loud, boisterous adults are FAR more annoying to me than whiny, overtired kids.
I agree there is a time and place for children if a resturant is for adults it's going to be boring and to slow for kids. I wouldn't dream of taking my kids to a place that is clearly for adults. With that said I have 4 kids from 2 - 11 and I never have a problem with taking them out. If someone is tired, bored or acting up then one of
us will take them out of the resturant for some fresh air and a short walk until the food comes. I would hate to be the family with "those kids".
I think a resturant should make it clear that people with out of control kids will be asked to remove the child until they are under control or leave but I don't agree with banning them. My kids are very well behaved and they enjoy getting a special day in a fancy adult resturant and I would hate them to have to miss out because other parents can't take care of their kids.
Parents will be held accountable for their childrens behavior - places should be posting that.
Thing is, most of the parents with "those kids", they don't care. That is why they have "those kids"!
Thanks a bunch for the comment and insight!
I have always hated being judged by my group (whether it be 'teenagers' or 'female' or whatever), and I much prefer seeing individual troublemakers removed than whole groups banned.
But with litigation for hurt feelings and businesses unwilling to annoy even the most horrible of customers, it's impossible to deal with the individual problems, so I can't really blame them for going the other route.
i feel the way you do. people often let their kids do whatever they want sometimes and i find myself staring at the parents trying to mentally coax them into taking action and responsibility for their own kids.
"The signs should read: Screaming kids with inattentive and careless parents will be banned. But how does one define that?"
That line says it all for me. I have no problem hearing a baby cry at a restaurant as long as one of the parents gets the hell up and out of the restaurant till the baby calms down. We usually go out to eat at least 5 times a week if not more. Having noisy kids at a nearby table is rarely a problem. There are places we consciously stay away from just for that reason......FRIENDLY'S!!!!! Every single time you go there you will have parties of kids going absolutely APESHIT!! So if that bothers you then stay the hell away form there. Other then that, never a problem.
It's all about the parents on this issue. No need to ban kids from anywhere! Great article!!
p.s parents stop being D.B.'s
EBGB
I just spent over 2 hours on a flight from Boston to Chicago listening to twin 8 or 9 month old babies scream their lungs out!! And they had, I'm guessing, a 3 or 4 year old as well, that was loudly trying to get Mom or Dad's attention at the same time.I kept asking myself," what on earth would prompt some parent to take these children on a flight, which first of all would hurt their ears both going up and coming down, and secondly would be extremely boring for them". Did someone in their immediate family die? Or was it a family reunion that they felt they must attend? Wedding? I have raised 5 children and I would never have considered taking them on a flight to a place that I could easily have driven to in a day or a day and a half. At least if I had driven, only me and my husband would have had to listen to the screaming, not a hundred other poor souls!!
The thought crossed my mind today that I could fully understand why some airlines might ban children from some flights or create special flights for people with children, and keep certain flights child free!
I am also a foster parent, and I've seen first hand the damage caused to children by parents that are totally self-absorbed. I am also Heidi's mother and am thrilled by the way my grandchildren have learned to be considerate of others in their world. It's all about taking the time to teach your children!
I am the mother of 2 month old twins. I can see both sides of the story here. I believe some places are just not places to take a baby. Ive been to the movies before where someone brought their infant and it was terrible. I would never do such a thing but alas some parents are just not considerate. Also some parents it seems either lack the ability or the desire to control their children. I have been in resturants before where a kid was just running laps between the tables. Its ridiculous. My dad would have never tolerated such behaviour. That is who it is a reflection on is the parents. I can def see banning them from certain places. You wouldn't take a child to a resturant with ballroom dancing. Yet I will say I do not see what it hurts to have babies in places such as Mcdonalds or even the local Long Horn or other steak house as most of these places are so noisy that a baby really doesn't affect the atmosphere. Then again perhaps some resturants should incorporate a policy that says people with unruly children will be asked to leave. But what qualifies as unruly for some may not bother others. I mean I dont like children running down the aisles but I also detest large parties of adults who are seated close to me and have no consideration for other consumers nearby by being extremely loud and obnoxious. I mean how much can we really control. We can go to our fav resturant that happens to have no children present and the food or service still be bad and we not enjoy ourselves. I think some places are ok for kids and some not. As a mom of twins I know what its like to want a night out with just adults but thats why I don't go to Mcdonalds on those nights out yet I also love the idea of eating out as a family. Some happy memories I have are eating out as a kid with my family and sharing a big sundae but again we were at a family resturant and we knew to behave. I do not think it should be a straight policy that all resturants ban kids but I do not see anything wrong with resturants dictating wether they serve children or not based on their atmosphere. And no baby belongs in a movie theater.
You're right. There have to be sanctuaries for all types of people and situations. And there are! The main factor is some people just don't follow the same set of rules as the rest of us. There are places that are not suitable for kids.
Thanks for the thoughts!
The only people that should EVER be banned from restaurants are:
NOSE BLOWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How dare you poeple!?!?! What is wrong with your W.T. brains that makes you think it's ok to blow your nose while other poeple are eating!??! I swear this happens 99% of the time we go out to eat!
We have a saying here:
NOSE BLOWERS MIGHT AS WELL FART AT THE TABLE!
That says it all! Anyone with me?
EBGB
That is a blog all by itself. It all comes down to tolerance and consideration. It would seem there are a few of us out there who just don't have much of either.
I have two children of my own, and while I think there are certain times and places it's okay to ban children under a certain age (ie: higher end restaurants, late at night meals...etc.) I am definitely not happy with just everyday restaurants banning children. I get that there are parents who don't control their children when out, but why must the parents who teach their kids to be respectful to the people around them when out pay the price because of some bad parenting out there? I'm smart enough to know not to take my kids to expensive restaurants, and to be honest, at the age they are now we mostly stick to drive thrus until my youngest who is two can be in a position to not cause chaos in a sit down restaurant. But I'll be really ticked if when they get to that point where they are ready I can't take them out because they aren't 10 or something. And I have to say,although no one wants to be eating next to a screaming child, it seems a lot of people these days are inconvenienced with a child who may be a little louder even in a joyful, child-like state. It breaks my heart that children are seen as a burden to society and not a blessing.
Seeing as most people who are commenting feel the other way, I am sure this may develop some negative comments, but it's just how I feel. I guess it doesn't matter how I feel about it though, because like it or not, it sounds like it is going to happen. lol.
well tonight I took my 3 years to a fancy restaurant, he was loud, and in the last 15 minutes he wan no longer willing to sit and was running around the restaurant. I was so embarrassed, I think I will stop taking him to any fine dining restaurants until he is old enough to sit still for an hour quietly.
Wow, great article.Really thank you! Awesome.
While I agree that some parents don't bother to educate their children. I also have to disagree with a lot comments on here.
Firstly as a parent, I have learnt that people who don't have children, don't know a thing at all, you may be around children all the time, but you really have no clue.
I have 2 children aged 3 and 7, and they are polite, friendly children, who know that if they break rules, there are consequences. But I also allow them to have minds of their own,and to not be afraid to have their own opinions! I was so unhappy when the 7 year old started school,because of the whole "children need to be mainstreamed"type of attitude. When someone is "taught" to fit in with society, it really is just a nice way of saying "brainwashed".
Why should I take my children to MacDonalds,and drive 2 days to visit Gran!
Are we going to go back to "children should be seen and not heard"?
Its because of people with this attitude, that parents with young children, have stopped going to church, and reject invites to many functions, because there is always some adult around, that feels their rights are more important than that of children.
I tell you all now, that unless a place specifically says no children allowed,and its not a bar or some sleezy place, my children WILL go eat there,and fly there and anything else the occasion requires! My children learn from experience! I will (and have) taken them to nice restaurants, we've never had problems, so why should I suddenly not take them to nice places any more?
And to the person whining about the babies on the plane... REALLY?? Why is it any of your business why they flew? We have family in Spain, in Egypt and in South Africa, should I avoid flying just to make you happy? I think.... NOT!
I will not disrespect a place that says No to children, but I also will never support that restaurant again, neither will I fly that airline again! If my children are not worthy of what you have to offer them, than neither is their parents money!
And Remember... Children don't stay children forever!
I agree! We homeschool our seven year old-she has never been involved in mainstream schooling-and we've been told that she acts more mature than her seven years when we're out in public. Sometimes she acts up, when she is tired or overly hungry, but usually if I ask her to calm down she will, and if she doesn't sometimes I will take her outside for a bit. I feel like our society is swinging in the direction where, as you said, there are lots of adults around these days who feel their rights are more important than anybody else's.
I understand the point of view of people who are annoyed by loud children in public places. However, from the point of view of one who has worked in the field of law, I also understand that allowing businesses to ban children sets a dangerous precedent. So the restaurant down the street bans children-what's next? Banning children from the local Whole Foods Market because other shoppers want to shop without little kids in their way? Banning children from flying normal hours so that adults can fly without them, while those of us with children are limited to crappy flights (we fly often, and it's already a pain in the butt enough trying to find a decent flight). Giving businesses the right to ban children sets a precedent where that right might be abused. Who decides that a child's behavior is annoying? As human beings, we all have varying tolerance levels. And why is this subject coming up all of a sudden? Children haven't changed that much-it's adults who have. As we move into a more self centered society, we encounter more adults who have no tolerance for anything outside their own comfort zones. As parents, we need to be mindful of other people. We need to use good judgement when deciding where to take our kids. If our child goes ape crazy in a restaurant, we should take them outside (I don't so much object to the owners of these establishments asking parents to take their kids outside, only to them banning children altogether). Honestly, though, I'm more often annoyed by other adults in public places than I am children. If places can ban kids, can we also have rude, arrogant people banned from public places?
I totally agree with you. I am never annoyed by children being load.
"If our child goes ape crazy in a restaurant, we should take them outside (I don't so much object to the owners of these establishments asking parents to take their kids outside, only to them banning children altogether)."
This is the issue. If a restaurant does not post a sign, they open themselves up to discrimination lawsuits.
The reasons stores and such posts signs is so they don't get sued for asking a guy without a shirt to leave a 7-11.
It is unfortunate that so few ruin it for so many, but that is the way it is.
The way our world is now, it's absolutely necessary for children
to be banned from restaurants, movies, etc. Decades ago, this wasn't the case, because parents were at least a little considerate, and they knew when and where to take their tots. Now it's become an epidemic. No place is quiet and serene. And children in bars? That should be against the law for their own good. (In fact, it probably is.)
Part of what is happening, is that younger parents today grew up
eating out, and they don't want to stop. They don't want to change
their lifestyles or give up anything. Guess what. That's part of
being a parent. A responsible parent, at least. Don't make everyone
suffer because you did the time and don't want to pay the dime.
And if if costs anything for the little one to eat, why not hire a
baby sitter? That's how people used to do it. The parents get a
night out, and when they come home, Junior is more precious than
ever. When Junior goes out with the parents, no one is happy--not
the parents, not Junior, not the other people in the restaurant,
movie, whatever. And grandparents are good sitters too.